How Understanding Emotional Culture Can Lead To Change Program Success with Jeremy Dean

Emotions play a crucial but often overlooked role in the workplace, especially during times of change. When teams and stakeholders are emotionally aligned with a strategic vision, change programs can thrive. Yet, emotional culture is rarely discussed until emotions become a problem.

Today, I have the privilege of speaking with Jeremy Dean, the founder and mastermind behind riders&elephants, a company that designs simple, human-focused games that reimagine the way people can connect and grow. Jeremy's mission is to rehumanise workplaces, and his games are used by some of the world's most prominent organisations, including IBM, Netflix, Airbnb, and the United Nations.

In this conversation, Jeremy and I delve deep into the concept of emotional culture, exploring its significance, how it differs from cognitive culture, some of the common challenges leaders face, and practical strategies for incorporating it into change management plans. Jeremy's insights and tips for leaders and people managers navigating the sometimes uncomfortable realm of emotional culture are absolutely invaluable.

We talk in particular about The Emotional Culture Deck, a powerful tool designed to help leaders and teams understand, express, and navigate their emotions during times of change. Jeremy emphasises the importance of articulating desired and undesired emotions, enabling leaders to create a roadmap for guiding their teams through emotional challenges during change.

Introducing emotional culture initiatives can be uncomfortable, especially for leaders. Jeremy shares his advice on starting small, experimenting with trusted individuals, and using The Emotional Culture Deck as a Trojan horse to initiate discussions about emotions without triggering resistance.

Jeremy also highlights the need for leaders to understand their own emotions and vulnerability, as this can pave the way for empathy and relatedness within teams. We discuss how it all starts with self-awareness and how leaders must first understand their own emotions in order to empathise with their team.

The conversation about emotional culture is so powerful and yet an often neglected aspect of the workplace. I hope you take so much away from Jeremy's insights and practical advice, highlighting the power of emotions in driving human behaviour and culture. It's clear that by embracing emotional culture, organisations can not only navigate change more effectively but also create a healthier and more empathetic work environment.

There are so many gems here. Take a listen now!

TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Kate: Something I've noticed in my work is that when teams and stakeholders are aligned strategically and emotionally, change programs fly. But few people ever talk about emotional culture at work until the emotions become a problem. What even is emotional culture in your organisation? Can change leaders and change managers somehow intentionally, you know, help to shape the emotions that stakeholders experience through change?

[00:01:36] I mean, it can be pretty tricky and uncomfortable to deal with emotions at work sometimes. That's why I'm so stoked to be talking with Jeremy Dean on the show today. Jeremy is the founder and master game maker at riders&elephants. Now, riders&elephants designs games to help people express themselves through simple, powerful words.

[00:01:58] Jeremy's on a mission to re-humanise the places that people work. And riders&elephants games are used by people in some of the biggest and most inspiring organisations on the planet. I'm talking places like IBM, Netflix, IAG, Canva, Airbnb, the United Nations, Toyota, and PWC. They all use riders&elephants’ games.

[00:02:21] In this conversation, Jeremy and I talk about why intentionally considering the emotions that you want your people to feel through the change journey can be, well, it can be game changing. You're about to discover the story behind how Jeremy came up with the emotional culture deck, the difference between emotional culture and cognitive culture, the most common challenges and misconceptions around this idea of emotions at work and how to incorporate emotional culture into your change management plans.

[00:02:54] And trust me, that is something that you are definitely going to want to do. Jeremy also shares some really great practical tips for leaders and people managers who might be feeling a little bit uncomfortable or uncertain about integrating emotional culture initiatives into their work and into their change programs.

[00:03:13] There are so many gems here. I know that you're going to love this episode. So let's dive into my conversation with Jeremy Dean.

[00:03:21] Jeremy, hello. Welcome. I'm so glad that we are having this conversation about emotions. Thank you for being here.

[00:03:29] Jeremy: Yeah, thank you for having me. I feel, I feel grateful to be here. Also feel nervous and anxious all of a sudden, my heart rate's lifting again. those are all things that I experience on a daily basis now.

[00:03:42] Kate: Well, look, I'm not surprised. I've got some hard hitting questions for you. It's going to be a terrifying experience. well, let's ease into things then. Something that I have heard is that you quite like Spending time outside, outdoor activities like fly fishing. I don't know anything about fly fishing, but I'm curious about how the activities that you spend time doing outside of work, like fly fishing, outdoors, how does that contribute and shape your approach to leadership and thinking about emotions at work and humanising work.

[00:04:22] Jeremy: That's an incredible question that I haven't ever considered before or been asked, because I don't know if I'm consciously thinking about how that impacts my leadership or rehumanising the work I am conscious about doing those activities, specifically fly fishing on the river. Because the places I fish mean that I don't get reception, and so it's a forced disconnect. And that's I think vital because uh, my mind is going a thousand miles an hour and I need a place to go and be mindful and focus on a certain task, which is tying flies or looking for fish in the river. I'm not catching fish. I'm just fly fishing.

[00:04:57] It doesn't matter if I catch or not. I just need a place to go. That's in nature. There's no phones, no distractions, and I can keep focused on one task. There's some really fascinating research into fly fishing and as well, which I came across the other day, which I wasn't aware and haven't been aware of my whole life, even though I fish my whole life, but the mindfulness of the activity and how it helps, especially veterans, combat veterans, tackle PTSD, which is really interesting.

[00:05:22] Kate: Yes. I immediately connect to you saying there are some key features there about those activities, about being offline, about being very present with what you're doing and that it is quite different, I'm imagine, from what you spend your work time doing. The way that you're moving your body maybe, what you're thinking about, the way you're using your hands, I can relate.

[00:05:47] I have a similar thing with tennis. With tennis, for me anyway, I'm not very good at it. I've only been doing it for a couple of years, but I like it. I want to get better and better. When I turn up at tennis, I'm only thinking about work for the next three to five minutes before I realise I've really got to focus.

[00:06:05] There are balls flying everywhere. I'm going to get in trouble if I'm not present and really focused on what's happening on the court. And it is that I'm offline. I'm not checking my phone. I don't have time for that. That forced presence.

[00:06:20] Jeremy: Yeah, I love that. It's the same. I mount a bike as well, but I like the uphill because I don't have my phone and I can spend time reflecting and be introspective with my thoughts rather than being responsive and reactive to what's happening outside of my world and my work world. And so I like, I guess the connection back to our game anyway, as I'm there with my emotions, reflecting on them, understanding what's happening for me in that moment and at the current time. So there is some similarities cause our game creates space for people to reflect. it does draw your attention because of the nature of the cards. So if I were to look at it further, there are probably all these little things that clearly have come from outside work world and my personal life that have been brought out in the design of this game for sure.

[00:07:03] Kate: Yeah. And how you want to feel in your offline time as well.

[00:07:08] Jeremy: Yeah. really intentional about that as well. And not just being reactive to that. I think is interesting.

[00:07:13] Kate: Yeah. Oh, thank you. I'm going to keep thinking about that. And me with tennis and you with fly fishing you've mentioned emotions and the game, let's talk about it. So lots of people that I come across, they've heard of things like values, principles, behaviours at work. Uh, and these are words that come up over again with senior executives and with people managers at all levels.

[00:07:39] But. Sometimes, Emotions at work and thinking about emotional culture, and how the emotions and how that might impact work is kind of a newer, scarier topic for people. I'd love for you to share the story behind. How you created the emotional culture deck and why I'm kind of really interested to know if there was something you noticed through your work, a pattern or some, a trigger that made you start thinking about things to do with emotions.

[00:08:14] Jeremy: Yeah, well, there was so many triggers over a period of sort of five or five to six years that I was working in the culture space that all culminated in, in the game, in the tool, but the main trigger was that we were working on culture projects, focusing on those things you're talking about there.

[00:08:32] So purpose, vision, and values, the cognitive side of values, and it seemed to me as if. We were going back into these organisations time and time again, and nothing was really changing apart from we had created amazing resources and assets and videos and posters that were paraded around organisations and countries and teams, but we were missing a really vital component within the culture of any organisation.

[00:08:59] And I stumbled across this research from Seagal Bassad at Wharton Business School. And in the article that I first read, which took me down this journey, there was a line that said most organisations underestimate the influence of emotion on the culture of their teams. They focus on cognitive culture, purpose, vision, and values, how we think about those things.

[00:09:23] And they overlook the emotional culture, which is how people are feeling or should be feeling as a team. And that really struck with me because I'd seen the cynicism in organisations and employees and people when we were running these values projects, which were disguised as culture projects. Which turned out to be HR teams and leaders ticking the box for somebody higher up the chain to say we're changing our culture and it just being about values and behaviours and not the thing that drives human behaviour fundamentally, which is emotion. Our emotions govern how we behave. Yet, up until that point in time, I had never even considered how emotion impacted the culture of a team or come across anybody in the world, even the Titans in the space that I followed, none of them had ever even mentioned the impact of emotions on the culture of a team.

[00:10:16] And that really intrigued me. And then I designed a game to help leaders intentionally craft the emotional culture of the teams.

[00:10:22] Kate: Amazing. Amazing. yes, I notice in the work that I do, there's places where emotions, they really are the elephant. They're the unspoken thing in the room. Something that I see quite often is, In decision making, there's a lot of emphasis at work about strategic decision making and strategic alignment.

[00:10:46] Everyone's got to get aligned. This team and that team, they need to be aligned strategically on the priorities. But what I have observed is that if people are not emotionally aligned, which is the stuff that's going on below the surface, under the water, That's the riptide. If people are not emotionally aligned, you're in deep shit.

[00:11:06] Your, your project, your initiative, you're going to struggle. Yeah, it's interesting. So I, I agree. And look here, if people are watching this, I have used this. mentioned to Jeremy before my executive coach took me through the emotional culture deck and activity a couple of years ago to think about how.

[00:11:25] I wanted our people to feel and it was such an insightful and clarifying experience. if we're thinking about change programs in large organisations, how can focusing on the emotion and creating that space using this game, creating that space to consider emotions, help. Set up the change program, whatever it might be about for success.

[00:11:52] Jeremy: It's yeah, it's a beautiful question because the one thing that we overlook by way, I mean us as human individual humans, but also organisations and leaders. The, the one thing that I've come to experience and realise that we always overlook is the emotional impact of change. We're so focused on the functional aspect of change.

[00:12:12] The rational, the cognition side of it, the structural aspect of change and helping people move through that we completely overlook either completely or completely underestimate the impact of emotions on change. And there's a really beautiful quote, and I can never recall who said this quote. and that is, that emotion is a decision of the heart, not the mind. Even my natural disposition is to think about change as a, as a cognition thing, rather than a, and an emotional thing. And so how we use our game. But the beautiful question anybody can ask themselves is how do I need to feel through this period of change?

[00:12:46] The way that we structure our conversations about change with this game is that if you as a leadership group or team or leader can determine and craft the emotions you want your people to feel, the desired ones through this period of change, but also label and recognise the undesired emotions that you don't want your people to feel, but they will experience through that change.

[00:13:07] From there, you can then have a really, a really deep and meaningful discussion about what actions, what behaviours how do we need to show up as leaders to help our teams navigate those emotions as they go through this change. But it's the unknown, the uncertainty and emotion of going through that, that's difficult.

[00:13:23] And people don't have the tools or the labels or the ability to, to have that conversation. So we strip it back and start with emotions. What, how do you want your people to feel and not feel through this period of change? And then see where that takes us and then move into the, the functional, rational, cognitive side of change.

[00:13:43] Kate: Centering emotions as part of the. The whole planning approach, it sounds like from the very beginning I feel like there's a truthiness to that. And I also reckon heaps of people managers would feel worried. They would have emotions that would be uncomfortable for them about the idea of, considering emotions, engaging with their team members about it.

[00:14:09] Jeremy: Yeah, and it's, it's so interesting cause it's so true and I hear that and we hear that a lot. What is, what is evident to me and that when we hear it time and time again is that as leaders, it's our own emotions that are holding us back from these conversations because of the fear of the unknown, uncertainty, but there's so much power.

[00:14:28] And influence and, and cathartism, I guess, and labelling one's emotions. And if we can help our individual employees label those, recognise them, then that actually reduces the unpleasant emotion. But our whole lives, we are taught that suppressing emotion is better because we don't want to be seen as vulnerable.

[00:14:47] We don't want to open ourselves up to how that might be used against us. The flip side of it, that suppression means that we end up not acknowledging those things and that becomes contagious. And then we have a culture of suppression and a culture of all these undesired emotions that are. They're consistently circling that, that we're not willing to confront or we're not willing to be intentional about shifting.

[00:15:09] Kate: So what are some tips? what would you recommend to an executive or a people manager, a leader who they have those uncomfortable feelings about pursuing this, they're hesitant about, you know, incorporating emotions in their change approach, or in their transformation program, what kind of advice could you offer them?

[00:15:35] Jeremy: it's a great question. Again, there's probably a couple of things, a small one, which has a big impact and then a broader thing to consider. The first one is you've got to start really small. you've got to experiment in the smallest way possible with some other person that you trust.

[00:15:51] You can experience firsthand that moment, that aha moment when the person you're playing this game with or using the tool with and yourself go, wow, we've never considered that before. And I've just learned more about you in five minutes than I knew about you in the month you've been working here so far.

[00:16:08] So start very small. Don't think about how this can be a transformational organisational wide rollout of anything, because that becomes paralysing fear, anxiety inducing. Find one person you trust and have a play with this and test it out I'm certain that you'll learn. Unbelievable amounts in that moment.

[00:16:28] And that will give you the confidence to go. This can work at a broader scale. So we talk about creating the smallest experiments possible that will show you what's possible. that's probably the overarching thing because I, our fear holds us back for what happens if this does, this goes wrong.

[00:16:42] And those little micro interactions that you can create will, will give you confidence that it's not the case. And because nobody's ever had these discussions, They're so meaningful and they're so engaging because we've never been asked that question. Imagine sitting down with an employee who's going through a period of change and asking them, how are you, our black cards are desired emotions, our white cards are undesired emotions.

[00:17:05] What black and white cards are you experiencing at the moment through this change? And share a story. Why? And the stories that come behind those labels will give a leader so much insight into how that individual person is, but also what might be happening in the team. That experience will then give you the confidence to go and scale it bigger.

[00:17:24] Kate: Ooh, good tips. Good tips. I, I love your suggestion of starting very small in a trusted space, because I do think that when we're doing new things, like talking about emotions and considering other people's emotions at work and kind of lifting them up, shining a light on them Vulnerability must be present. So I love that idea of start small, find your, in your little trust circle.

[00:17:53] Jeremy: Yeah. Yeah. And there's probably two more things. One leading on from your vulnerability comment there is that You will have heard and you will have read about lots of advice from people saying vulnerability matters and you need to be vulnerable, but that's a skill in itself.

[00:18:08] And it's a thing you have to learn. And it's difficult for somebody just to be vulnerable. If we don't have the labels, we aren't able to describe the emotions that we're experiencing, which are. Our vulnerabilities are built out of, and so giving somebody the tool, giving somebody the labels, whether it's our tool or any number of other beautiful tools out there, giving people those labels helps nudge the vulnerability.

[00:18:33] Otherwise we get paralysed, but we know we want to do it. We just don't know how, because we don't have the tools. We don't have the labels. that leads onto another piece of advice I give everybody is that Don't lead with this game is about emotions or this tool is about emotions. Just find that person or that team and say we're going to play this game. We're going to play a game to help us consider how we move through this period of change if we're talking about change. Because even that word emotion can be triggering for some that can make people put up a barrier or have people retreat and that's okay.

[00:19:06] That's normal to be expected, but by just saying, we're going to get together and play with this tool to play with this game. All of a sudden the barriers are lowered. People experience it and then go. Oh, wow. I was able to do that. They might not express that, but they will realise that they're able to do the thing that they thought they couldn't and put up a barrier for.

[00:19:24] Kate: Hmm. That's a great point. very powerful tip, for people because there's. Not just emotions. That's actually relevant to lots of different things that you may be hoping to take people through as part of a change journey, but particularly with emotions, there's certainly been times in my life where if someone had come to me saying, let's have a conversation about our emotions, would have said, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. My calendar's full. I can't make that, I'm not available. I'd want to retreat from that. So,

[00:19:56] Jeremy: Yeah. Yeah. And So, it's a Trojan horse, essentially our tool, our game, others out there can be used that way as well. But um, Brene Brown talked about a Trojan horse in a podcast. I listened to her years ago when she was talking about vulnerability and introducing that to fortune 500 companies. And now for the first X amount of years, when she said the word vulnerability, those companies just retreated and said, no, we don't do that around here.

[00:20:19] Kate: yes, everyone leans out. Yeah.

[00:20:21] Jeremy: Yeah. I heard Trojan horse was just to say, we're going to work on communication and then she would introduce vulnerability into her work. And then all of a sudden people realised that it was possible and how powerful it was. And it's the same. I've taken that role essentially for our children and said, it's the same thing.

[00:20:35] Consider this being a game that we play. The Trojan horse is that it will nudge vulnerability. It will nudge our leaders to think more strategically about emotions in the workplace. before you mentioned about how leaders are strategic when it comes to decision making, but how strategic are leaders when it comes to emotion?

[00:20:52] Cause we don't consider emotions to be a strategic thing. However, if you're a leader, who's not intentionally crafting emotional culture strategy or your strategy for emotions, you're inadvertently probably suppressing emotions in your team or your workplace. And that will have a number of flow on effects that you'll be experiencing now, but unable to explain.

[00:21:11] And so I think the great leaders are the ones who are either consciously or subconsciously deliberate about crafting emotional culture and the strategy around emotions in their teams.

[00:21:22] Kate: I agree. what I have observed is that when there is Acknowledgement. And a sense of connection or alignment, you know, like I've been saying, I'm understood these things that go with this idea of alignment, strategic alignment and decision making. And we're all on the same page, but when that's brought into emotions.

[00:21:43] That creates velocity, that creates traction and speed. Things really can speed up because so many of the barriers and obstacles and roadblocks, come up day to day for people in work, particularly through change and uncertainty have to do with Those things that are under the water.

[00:22:03] Jeremy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And a big part of our tool on our game and my philosophy anyway, is built out of self determination theory and relatedness, how you help people find or create relatedness. And my wife, six weeks ago, ran a workshop, a partnership workshop, using our tool to bring together two teams that were, have been in conflict for 10 years, 10 years of, of conflict, disharmony between teams.

[00:22:27] And somebody came up to her at the first break in the session and said, well, I never expected to be sharing how I felt. In this environment and that related that person then had with the other people at the table from both those parties is phenomenal. And that's in this tiny little conversation because we give people permission now and Becky was brave enough not to shy away from that to face your own discomfort and fear of what might go wrong and gave those people in that room the chance to relate to each other and relatedness is a huge driver of human behaviour.

[00:22:59] But we overlook the emotional aspect of relatedness, and that's key, how I feel, how you're feeling, and the commonalities, or also the differences, because those are both normal.

[00:23:09] Kate: Yes. That's incredible for that to have happened. What a breakthrough moment. Go Becky. That's incredible. I really see through our conversation. There is this theme for leaders and people managers about self awareness. and checking in with themselves. And what I'm picking up is that that is almost the first step if you're interested in digging into learning more about, uh, emotional culture and intentionally setting and thinking about the emotional culture at work. It sounds to me like the first step has to do with self awareness. With yourself as a leader. Is that right?

[00:23:49] Jeremy: It all comes back to starting with self. all of our activities, all of our, all of our guides, all of our workshops, all of our sessions that you can run using the game, the hundreds and hundreds of them that there are now, that have been created by our community, which is mind blowing, but all of those things, Generally come back to starting with self. So if you're using this game as a leader to intentionally craft the emotional culture of your team, we still start with self. How do I want to feel and not feel as a leader in this team? And from there you shift to, okay, now, how do we need our people to feel and not feel for us to be successful in this organisation?

[00:24:25] So always starting with self one for the self awareness piece, but also to nudge empathy for the people that they're leading. Because if we start with self and I go, Well, I need to feel inspired, free and brave and my work to be successful, but I don't want to feel alone, incapable and impatient. Well, if I'm feeling those things, they're going to be impacting my work.

[00:24:46] So what are my people experiencing undesired emotions on a regular basis that will be impacting their work? Because there will be many of them that we haven't discussed or you haven't learned as a leader that you're not aware of.

[00:24:58] Kate: Yes. Oh, I love that. The empathy. You're right. when you identify in yourself that there are feelings you do not want to feel and feelings you do want to feel that you believe are going to lead to your success and happiness, then it can open your eyes to. The experience that others might be having. Yeah.

[00:25:19] Jeremy: and how you show up as well, right, because I've, I had this insight the other day with one of the community events we were running is that I want to feel inspired in my work. But I realised that I also want the people I'm working with our community community to feel inspired, but I realised the flip side of that is overwhelmed because my inspiration, me feeling inspired and me wanting other people to feel inspired how that shows up is a lot of stuff, a lot of ideas, a lot of new activities, a lot of new tools, which can be very overwhelming and that can create a sense of overwhelm for people.

[00:25:49] And me starting to be aware of the flip side, the dark side or the red flag of any of our black cards that I'm experiencing and then express on a regular basis, I think is really important because as a leader, our emotions are contagious. There's a really beautiful thing called emotional contagion that exists where people catch our emotions.

[00:26:10] Subconsciously fast. And if I'm feeling a lot of inspiration, proud, and joy, others will be likely to catch that, but they can also get the flip side of that, which might be overwhelming paralysis. Cause it comes out quite intensely.

[00:26:24] Kate: Yeah. you are dropping so much gold. I'm, I'm really enjoying it. Now. I wanted to ask you, I know that we're at time, but I'm so curious. You've mentioned your growing community a couple of times, I know that, continuing to learn and evolve and adapt is kind of central to your work. So I'm curious. What is one big lesson or insight, a new lesson or insight that you have learnt so far this year?

[00:26:54] Jeremy: Oh, this year, That it's okay to let go of control. I'm struggling with that, but it's okay. We've got a really young family and are about to add to that. We've got two girls under two, And then we're having a third one in three weeks time. And I like to have everything controlled.

[00:27:10] I like to be in control. I like to feel in control and I've got to give up some of that control. Where I thought you were going to ask there is what have I learned from the community? Because that's come from that as well. Our community exists because. I've deliberately given up control. I've created a framework.

[00:27:23] I've designed a framework and we encourage people to hack the deck, to pull it apart and to make it work for them to, for them to add there. uniqueness, their personality, their style to it, because this tool is not about me anymore. It's about you using it and how you bring your unique skills, personality, identity to it.

[00:27:43] And that makes it even more real. I don't want to use the word authentic, but just makes it more real. giving up control to people to say, Hey, Go out there in the world and use it to solve the problems you're facing, not just the ones I was facing when I designed it seven years ago.

[00:27:58] Kate: Yeah, interesting. I actually was having a conversation with a colleague of mine yesterday about that for me, yes, a big lesson is around Letting go was the term that I was using, but I think it's the same kind of idea and I have found in my journey so far in my career and being a leader that it is.

[00:28:21] This idea of letting go comes around again and again. There's a new level of it, a new level of it. And my comfort grows a little bit more every time, but it's got to kind of keep on coming around to me. Going, no, I can let that go. let it fly by itself.

[00:28:39] Let it, you know, trust. yeah, interesting. Good one. Now I want to keep talking to you all day, but I think that we should wrap up. You've shared so much great stuff. I've loved this conversation. How can people keep the conversation going with you? How can they contact you?

[00:28:54] Jeremy: they should just Google the emotional culture deck. That's that simple. Google that and you'll see our stuff there. You can download the game for free. We give it away. We've removed all barriers for people using this across the planet. you can cut it up, print it off, cut it up with scissors if you like. People can obviously buy the physical one and if they like The tactility

[00:29:15] Kate: The physical one is beautiful. It's such great quality. Yeah, it's, it's lovely. It's definitely worth getting the physical one.

[00:29:23] Jeremy: Yeah, but people can start for free by downloading it. So just Google that emotional culture deck and you'll see it there. Download it, have a play with it, find somebody you trust, like we mentioned before, and have a go at it, see what you learn about yourself, about that person you're, you're playing it with.

[00:29:38] You're, you're talking to, and I hope that when you have those conversations, you'll feel inspired to dive deeper into the universe of emotional culture and being strategic about emotions at work, Not just hoping that things will be right.

[00:29:52] Kate: Things are going to work out. We just won't discuss it. Thank you so much. And now I know you said people will Google, we'll link to everything in the show notes. We'll make it very easy for people to connect with you on LinkedIn, on your website or all of that kind of stuff as well. And you've mentioned a few other resources in this conversation.

[00:30:10] We'll link to those as well. Thank you so much. Go have a great day.

[00:30:15] Jeremy: Thanks, Kate.

LINKS

Resources Mentioned:

The Emotional Culture Deck: https://www.ridersandelephants.com/the-emotional-culture-deck

CONNECT WITH JEREMY DEAN:

Website: https://www.ridersandelephants.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-dean-theemotionalculturedeck/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theemotionalculturedeck/

CONNECT WITH KATE:

There are 4 different Change Leadership Styles. Which one is yours? Take my free 2 min quiz to discover your Change Leadership Style here!

Website: https://www.everchange.com.au/